The first time that there was any discussion at all of joining a union was after Bob Travis came into town. That's the first thing...The minute I heard it I went over there.

Roy Harris says come on over, I want you to hear this guy, he's from Toledo. And he says they're organized over there and he'll give you an idea of what the hell you can do if you're organized.

(so you met Don Burtsman in the basement?) Thats right thats the first meeting I had with Don and Burt Harrison and you know when. After that he was meeting with different people so you couldn't have it in the same place because at that time your police department here in Flint was trying to get wind of what was going on and they were trying to find out what the hell was going on, didn't meet at the same place every time. By word of mouth, why they'd say we're going to be over at so and so's house tonight.

And you get whatever guys you could from your plant and you take them over there and you let them listen to Bob Travis. You know the minute that they found out that we had an organization, that wanted to help the guy on the line, you know what I mean, without having to be skilled trade, they got interested, bam, because your working conditions in those days had got to the point where the men were desperate. Anything, anything for help is what they, the way they felt, see.

So I had no, I had no difficulty, I had uh, I had that plant eighty percent organized before we went on strike.